Introducing: The DBI Interview Series
Interview with Dana Rebaza, CSAT, CPDT-KA, KPA CTP, VSA-CDT
By Stephanie Keesey-Phelan, Ph.D., BCBA, CCUI, FFCT
At DBI, we believe that no person, no family, and certainly no dog trainer or behaviorist is an island. If you read our blog regularly, you already know that we believe that if you are a behavior analyst by profession, you are not your dog’s behavior analyst. But you may not know that we often collaborate with other dog training professionals to increase our knowledge and skills, and when we are working with a client whose behavioral presentation falls beyond our scope or expertise. Collaboration with other qualified professionals is a huge part of our work. It allows us to provide the most ethical and effective treatment for the dogs we work with, and also helps us build a wonderful community committed to making lives better for dogs and their people.
To that end, we are expanding our blog to include interviews with some of the amazing professionals we collaborate with. Our goal in doing this is to introduce you, our readers, to people who work in a variety of areas in the dog world but who share a common mission of increasing your dog’s welfare.
Interview with Dana Rebaza, CSAT, CPDT-KA, KPA CTP, VSA-CDT
Our inaugural interview took place this fall with Dana Rebaza, CSAT, CPDT-KA, KPA CTP, VSA-CDT. Dana (they/she/he) is a fabulous dog trainer and consultant who owns The Brave Dog Collective. They are a Certified Separation Anxiety Trainer (CSAT) who works specifically with dogs who suffer from separation anxiety and their people. The CSAT program was created by Malena DeMartini-Price who wrote a book on separation anxiety that we reviewed in a blog post back in April. In our conversation, Dana and I talked about their work with separation anxiety dogs and what makes the work both challenging and fulfilling.
It was such a pleasure to conduct this interview.
As you’ll read below, Dana provided such thoughtful, honest, and heartfelt answers to our questions. Read on to learn more about Dana and the important work they are doing.
Stephanie: Tell us about how you got into the field of dog training, what made you decide to work with dogs?
Dana: I think like a lot of people, I came into this through working in shelters. I used to say that shelters raised me because I started volunteering as soon as I graduated from high school and was in college. I was sucked into the animal world. That was in 2004 and then by 2008 I started training. I got involved in what was most available to me and it was because of my dog Molly, the first dog I adopted as an adult. She had separation anxiety and I was freaking out because I was worried about getting kicked out of my apartment. She was barking all day and my neighbor was really pissed and this was right after it had taken me six months to beg my landlord to let me have a dog. It would have been really simple to bring her back to the shelter, I worked there and knew if I brought her back she would have a good outcome. But she was my dog, you know? So that’s what got me into training.
Initially I worked with some trainers who taught me to use aversives, we weren’t calling it “balanced” training then. Eventually about four or five years in I realized through my relationship with my own dogs that I wasn’t seeing obedience, I was seeing fear. I saw the negative effects on my relationships with my own dogs and I had an emotional crisis over it. I stopped working with dogs altogether for a few years. During that time I worked in homeless outreach and volunteered with cats. I literally didn’t want to be around dogs other than my own dogs, and with my own dogs I was like, “There are no expectations here, no rules, anything goes!” I couldn’t really deal with all the emotions that came with that light bulb being turned on.
Eventually I wanted to come back to training but it was really important to me that I learned from people who actually have credentials and education in learning theory - I didn’t want the trial-and-error stuff that you find with traditional training. So I went to VSA (Victoria Stilwell Academy) and KPA (Karen Pryor Academy). I am still a CPDT (Certified Professional Dog Trainer), and used to have IAABC (International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants) [certifications]. Ultimately, I have or am letting several of those certifications drop because of the climate around diversity and inclusion. I kind of powered through all this stuff, both in an effort to bring people the type of training that will actually give them a healthy relationship with their dog. But I also think there was some element of trying to make up for, and I still tear up talking about this, but trying to make up for the damage that I felt like I’d done in the previous part of my career. At some point I had to let that go because I was starting to burn out.
Separation anxiety had always been the thing I wanted to return to but I think because I had all this past emotion I kept putting it on the back burner. Eventually, I applied to the [CSAT] program. It was probably the most pivotal program I’ve been a part of because there was a lot of healing in that program. Healing both for me personally and then in learning the skills I can actually use to help other people who are in a similarly difficult situation with their dogs. I think a lot of separation anxiety work is very healing not just for the dogs but for people. So that is what revived my motivation and interest and it’s really tapped into what I wanted to do with people through training. After I graduated I have transitioned to focusing solely on separation anxiety cases. This is my full-time job.
Stephanie: Can you describe your work now, where you work and what your role is?
Dana: I work for myself at The Brave Dog Collective and see dogs directly through my company. I primarily offer what I call an intensive program - it’s a monthly program with daily support for folks with dogs that struggle with some type of separation anxiety, whether that is true separation anxiety in the clinical sense or separation-related behavior challenges. I offer other programming as well. What’s nice is that this work has given me the flexibility to be there for my clients when they need me. It’s a scheduled program but inevitably everyone is going to need support in some way, shape, or form. I have a client who I’m working with who is struggling with her first dog and so she’ll reach out when her dog is sick - I don’t give medical advice but I can help direct her to resources (e.g., call your veterinarian) or bounce ideas around with her. Or sometimes we have a really bad week and my client might need a shoulder to cry on or we might have a really good week and want to celebrate. For example, I got a good morning text from a client with her dog in a bean bag during a [training] mission. It was so great! So one of the things I love about this work is that it’s really flexible. From a personal enrichment perspective, I’ve been able to teach Yoga and so that fits into all of the flexibility of the work.
Stephanie: Are there consistent behavioral presentations or things that are consistent across clients that you encounter on a regular basis when working on separation anxiety?
Dana: Yes. Often my clients have seen other trainers and tried other methods so we are often starting from a point of having ruled out something simple, like if the dog needs more enrichment. Typically when people get to me we have determined that this is not easily fixable - it is rarely an issue of only addressing a gap in the dog’s needs. I usually encounter two types of clients - (1) those that have not done any kind of desensitization training whatsoever or (2) those who have tried it and felt like they made some initial success and then either regressed or plateaued. It may be my own bias, but whether they’re just starting out with desensitization training or have been through this process before, there is this human tendency to push the dog too far too fast. That is, raising criteria in training either too quickly, sharply or consistently, and not knowing how to stagger criteria for better progress. I might be seeing that connection because that’s my own tendency even just with teaching a dog a basic behavior - push a little too much! Sometimes, I get the client with the reverse tendency - they may avoid pushing criteria in training at all - and I have to help them learn how to raise criteria effectively. Most clients fall into the first tendency of pushing too far or too fast out of eagerness for progress.
Stephanie: Do you have any words of advice that you tell people who want to push too quickly?
Dana: In terms of trying to reign in peoples’ behavior, I believe it goes back to their expectations. I try to make sure that I understand what is driving their expectations. Typically people feel like they are under a deadline, people will say to me that they need the problem fixed or fixed by a certain date. We have to get clear on that with folks by being really candid. I don’t have a magic crystal ball and cannot predict how quickly a dog will move through training. We have a conversation about whether their expectations are realistic or not. Then, we learn how to focus on the progress that does occur (at the dog's pace!). In terms of realistic progress, I sometimes use the analogy related to working out - of stretching. You can’t stretch and stretch and stretch, you have to stretch and then ease off a little bit, then stretch a little bit more. You’re going to get way more progress that way than trying to stretch until you break something.
Stephanie: Have you found any general recommendations or approaches that help promote the behavioral wellness of the dogs with separation-related behaviors that you see?
Dana: It's important to address the dog's basic needs, and bridge any gaps in their physical, emotional, social needs. A common area needing a change is the dog's confinement space - if they are using one. It's often necessary to adjust the confinement space to better fit the dog’s body and comfort and facilitate relaxation. Another common area is whether the dog is on medication or not and having clients circle back to their veterinarian and continuing that conversation. Sometimes the dog has started medication and then the follow-up has fallen through. An important component of separation anxiety training can involve the dog's medical team and having a good relationship with the team is helpful. A third area that we often have to address is sound sensitivity. If the dog is reactive to sounds in their indoor environment, then that will inevitably come up when they are alone and it’s often magnified when they are alone. My own dog is a good example of that. So for those dogs, we have to make sure that the dog has the skills to manage those triggers both when they are with people and alone because being alone can magnify their reactions. Sound sensitivity is often a quality of life thing for the dog. Not all clients identify this as a welfare issue because many people can get used to living with a "barky" dog; and if it doesn’t bother you, it won't bother you until it becomes a problem with the neighbors. It’s really important for the dog’s welfare to address sound sensitivity.
Stephanie: What is your favorite part of the work?
Dana: Oh, how do I articulate this? I honestly feel very honored to be a part of these people and dogs’ lives. I’m in their lives in a way that is weirdly intimate because we talk a lot about human emotions too and factor that into what we do. We work with people when they’re struggling too. There’s a lot of guilt that can come with having a dog that struggles with separation anxiety and a lot of other emotions that are tough. Clients with dogs with separation anxiety are some of the most dedicated dog parents I’ve ever met. It’s not a competition, but they’re so dedicated, and loving. It takes a special kind of person in a special place to be able to shoulder this kind of work with their dog - it can feel like a huge burden. So to see the relationship repaired while the dog is also improving and people are getting their lives back, I’m very honored. I’m always sad when people graduate, I’m very happy for them but then down the road, I’m like “Oh, I wonder what this dog is doing!” For me it’s a little like a breakup. I’m an imperfect person too and an imperfect trainer but I appreciate the trust they give me and try to hold it as gently as possible. It challenges me to rise up to the occasion and to be there for them in the ways that they need.
Stephanie: What is your least favorite part of the work?
Dana: It’s going to sound terrible but it’s that the work is very humbling, which I appreciate. It’s not my least favorite part but the most challenging part of the job. A lot of these cases are not resolved with straight desensitization. There’s an opportunity for creativity and for coaching people and bringing out their endurance. The patience required for everyone to see results is tough to maintain, because you want to see people improve and see dogs improve and get to a better state faster. If I could accelerate sustainable success for any dog, I would; and that's the work - to try. I appreciate it because it’s challenging in good ways, but the patience required and the ability to withstand a lot of self-doubt are my least favorite parts of the job.
Stephanie: Is there any general advice you would give someone who has a dog that was recently diagnosed with separation anxiety or who is having some separation-related challenges?
Dana: I wish I could have a conversation with each of these people face-to-face! I think I’m also speaking to my former self, as I’ve been in this position before. I’ve adopted two different dogs at two different times and with each very early on I realized they had separation anxiety and I asked myself “What do I do?” And this was prior to learning how to successfully work through separation anxiety, as in a CSAT training program. With one of the dogs, Molly, I kept her and we worked through it with a loose desensitization procedure (along with other supports) and came to a place of maintenance with her that worked. I got lucky. With the next dog, "T", it was later on and I was older and in a place with no support system whatsoever. With Molly I had a huge support system but with T I had no support system - no access to the resources needed to maintain everyone's welfare in the process of training. I felt very much like I did with Molly where I was like, “this is my dog.” But because of what I went through with Molly, I knew what it would take to make this work, and I just didn’t have the resources or ability to engage what T needed from me at that time. It was a really tough thing to admit and more complex and emotional than I can convey in this conversation, there were so many emotions and real life factors that I had to consider. So, unlike with Molly, I ended up bringing T back to the shelter where I was working at the time.
So for folks who are in similar shoes I would say please bypass all the internet research and advice from your family and friends (and even a lot of veterinarians and dog trainers). Find a CSAT and give them a call. Obviously I am drinking the kool aid here but really you need to find someone who is in the trenches of this work who can give you a clear idea of what it takes to work through this. It is not something that everybody can do but if you have the right support and expectations you will be more successful. Once you have accurate information you can make the best decision for yourself, because the best decision for yourself is always the best decision for your dog. And I say this, knowing that folks who are in these positions with dogs with separation anxiety are really dedicated. They love their freaking dogs! When you bring home a dog you expect to have them for the rest of their lives. So with all of that in mind, it is okay to make whatever decision is right for you. Remember that there are resources! We live in a day and age where separation anxiety is not a death sentence for a dog in a shelter or rescue anymore. It may take a bit more effort to find the right home for that dog but they exist.
On the flip side, when you learn more about separation anxiety training and you think you can do it, just make sure you don’t try to do it alone. I can't emphasize this enough! You and your dog are not an island. Reach out to people and share your story. You'll be surprised how many people want to help you!
Stephanie: What advice would you give someone who is interested in becoming a Certified Separation Anxiety Trainer (CSAT)?
Dana: I would emphasize that I am not working hands on with the dogs. If anything, these dogs often look like blobs on zoom! I get photos and realize these dogs are way more beautiful in person! There’s a bit more of a disconnect with the dogs themselves in this kind of work, and there is way more riding on my relationship with the people, more than any other training I’ve experienced. That was something that was shared with me a long time ago - I was told you really have to like people. This work also feels a bit more heavy than some other types of dog training; we are dealing with heavy human emotions. You’re writing training plans for the dogs but training the humans. With that in mind, my advice would be to be really honest with yourself (I’m probably speaking to my former self here!) when you ask yourself why do you want to do separation anxiety training? Is it just another notch in your dog training belt or is it because you really have a heart for the heavy lifting that these long relationships really require? Can you provide the day-to-day support that you’re going to need to give people in order for them to be successful? There are other kinds of dog training you can do if your heart isn’t in this work or isn’t there yet. That was the case for me, initially it was more of a credential thing, so I kept putting it on the back burner and finally I was ready for the heavy lifting.
